Official addresses for Italy

[sabas]

No dump yet, it needs to be scraped
https://www.anncsu.gov.it/it/

Information is the "official" one as it is mandatory for municipalities to submit and keep updated the database...
The problem is that not many municipalities have real coordinates available so most addresses can be out of position, but hopefully it will improve over time.

[StephanGeorg]

I also came across this website yesterday, but couldn't find any information about linked data.
Let's ask an expert: @justinelliotmeyers any ideas?

[sabas]

Data is licensed as CC-BY.
There's no explicit dump or API as they still think this is a "private" service for the public administrations and let users query a single address at a time, although there's an API behind which could be used, they recently added a CAPTCHA

[justinelliotmeyers]

I was told about this site two or three weeks ago. To the best of my knowledge, it is still being developed. I'll check back and see if there is a timeline or contact.

[justinelliotmeyers]

He's super smart and responsive. Ping him, hopefully he can help! But again, still think it's being developed

[StephanGeorg]

@alesarrett What are your thoughts on this? 👆

[alesarrett]

@alesarrett What are your thoughts on this? 👆

Not much more than what @sabas has already said. The quality is very variable and the addresses are aligned to the centre line of the street (whereas in Italy they should be at the exact point where the plaque indicating the house number is located).

[justinelliotmeyers]

is it possible to build this region by region?

would istat have any data?

or anything through INSPIRE/ hvd initiatives?

Italia is on my to do list so I can put some effort into this if there are opportunities

[sabas]

@justinelliotmeyers we are inquiring about this resource for more than 10 years haha
For the release I worry that we will have to wait for the EU regulation to kick in after June...
My initial findings were that there are 3 select, first for municipality, second for roads and third for addresses. Dumping the first you get the municipality list with the cadastral code, the cadastral code is used to query for roads, from the roads endpoint you get the official list with a national ID, using the national ID you can retrieve addresses and coordinates

[justinelliotmeyers]

[sabas]

@justinelliotmeyers I cannot see the picture...

[justinelliotmeyers]

sorry, uploaded from cell. Here is the email I received:
[email protected]
[email protected]

Good morning,

by the end of March, from the ANNCSU website, by accessing in authenticated mode, anyone will be able to download all the names and civic names of a Municipality.

Best regards
UREL

[sabas]

@justinelliotmeyers in the documents I saw in the past they were suggesting that the downloads will be accessible only to employees of a municipality, not the public (albeit authenticated I think with SPID which is our identity system).... I wonder if they relaxed this policy

[justinelliotmeyers]

I'd imagine since the high value dataset initiative is coming soon, they might just get ahead of doing it twice, if that makes sense. Schedule it for March, hopefully hit the goal, but understanding it doesn't have to be done at all or until June if they adhere to it.

Every country is so different in Europe, about what data they have, what data they share, etc. Hopefully Italia can happen this year! Let me know if I can be further help, but this might be a wait we have to just... wait for :(

[StephanGeorg]

On 21 December 2022, the EU adopted an Implementing regulation lying down a list of specific high-value datasets in each of the six main categories identified in the directive: geospatial, Earth observation and environment, meteorological, statistics, company and company ownership, and mobility. The Regulation must be implemented by June 2024. Starting in February 2025, Member States will have to report to the Commission every two years on specific high-value datasets available at the Member State level, including links to the licensing conditions and the APIs.

EU: Show me your API endpoints baby.

[aborruso]

EU: Show me your API endpoints baby.

Yes, in June we must have both API and bulk download.

[justinelliotmeyers]

follow-up email that came in last week. Confirming June is the planned date!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This data is not available as open data, but data providers are working to make it available as open data from June onwards following the implementation of a European Regulation that identified those data as high-value datasets.

Best regards,
Antonio Rotundo

[aborruso]

by the end of March, from the ANNCSU website, by accessing in authenticated mode, anyone will be able to download all the names and civic names of a Municipality.

We are now in April and I don't seem to see anything new. Am I wrong?

Thank you

[justinelliotmeyers]

@aborruso I just sent a follow-up email. Will update as soon as I hear back. Thanks!!!

[sabas]

@justinelliotmeyers I found this writeup by @ivandorte on X
https://ivandorte.github.io/blog/anncsu

[justinelliotmeyers]

[sabas]

Technically it's the next month. now... Should I write too? :-D

[aborruso]

I made a notice to "Agenzia per l'Italia digitale", and I got an answer today (it's in Italian): my notice was not accepted, because in June it will be mandatory to publish that data.

This is something we already knew. It doesn't make sense to me, because current Italian regulations require them to publish that data. They should not wait until June, but publish them now.

But it is useless to talk about it. We have to wait.

Below is the answer I got

[aborruso]

Technically it's the next month. now... Should I write too? :-D

They did not write in 30 days, but in May. It is useless, we have to wait until June 9.

[sabas]

@aborruso similar answer to when I attempted the FOIA request :-D Let's set a calendar reminder for June 9th midnight time...

[Giasinit]

hello everyone, so we have to wait until next month to get this data?

[justinelliotmeyers]

@Giasinit yep. We've all asked multiple times. June is the magical month.

[Giasinit]

@justinelliotmeyers Thanks, but I saw that there is https://ivandorte.github.io/blog/anncsu as @sabas said before, but can't you contact the author of the blog and ask him for the files? or is the licence part the problem?

[justinelliotmeyers]

I have. No response. You can try. We all want this data. We just have to wait
😒

[Giasinit]

OK, this will mean a new challenge for me :)

I found the pmtiles used in the example on that blog:
https://anncsu-civici-firenze.netlify.app/data/D612.pmtiles

on this web-viewer, we understand that at least Florence is complete
https://protomaps.github.io/PMTiles/#map=11.59/43.7808/11.2442

p.s. there are CORS errors
we can use https://cors.giaflix.net/?url=https://anncsu-civici-firenze.netlify.app/data/D612.pmtiles

I also found his repository:
https://github.com/ivandorte/ivandorte.github.io/tree/86d54b78c1ad2867202132c1e814240cae63f48d/webmaps/anncsu-civici-firenze/data
there are no other files as I had hoped :(

[justinelliotmeyers]

ISTAT doesn't have the data. I emailed them twice this week, they just got back to me:

As the Institute of Statistics, within the project, we have the task of providing instructions for the formation of address data. The management of the IT infrastructure and database, including data download functions, is the responsibility of the Revenue Agency (Cadastre and Cartography Directorate) [email protected] . We are pushing for the opening of the unloading facilities. On the part of Istat we regret not maintaining what was previously communicated but we continue to monitor and urge.

Cordiali saluti
ANSC

[sabas]

Tick tock... Will they release this week?

[Giasinit]

i sincerely hope, even if I know it will take longer.

[justinelliotmeyers]

@sabas I've never been to Italia, so I'm not sure what the culture is as per open data and how to communicate with government. I know they are pushing to get this data out and open. I think it just takes time. I have no problem sending more communication and asking, but think we just have to wait. I want and need this data more than anyone, but have to just be patient. I think June is the high value data deadline. So it should hopefully happen very soon.

Wish there was more I could do

[Giasinit]

@justinelliotmeyers the italian culture is literally not wanting to do anything. we are a country where development is very slow and we are a country full of social problems, from politicians who say random things to people who riot... let's say that as far as this situation is concerned, we just need to NOT give up. sooner or later they will do something